Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (Moltres-Galar banned, see post #104)

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Feliburn

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Yo, with the first DLC dropping, we got access to a bunch of returning Pokémon to use. However, before we are able to use some of those mons in the RU tier, we also have access to move pool additions to the already existing mons.

All the following information has been stolen from TPP. Take a look at his original post here.

This table will show the relevant movepool distribution to the mons already usable in the RU tier. Feel free to let me know if I missed anything, and feel free to talk about the new meta.

Knock Off:
Scald:
Toxic:
High Horsepower:
Flip Turn:
Scale Shot:
Poltergeist:
Icicle Spear:
Vacuum Wave:

big shoutout to Glue for helping me compile this list.

I probably listed a bunch of mons that will stay irrelevant, but who cares.

I feel like it's worth mentioning some of the big winners of this DLC in current RU.

:krookodile: :weavile: Knock Off back is huge for Krookodile, as it was not really the best mon at making progress. Scale Shot access can also create some funny Moxie sweeper sets, but who knows. Weavile also really appreciates having Knock Off back, as Night Slash was a real pitiful Dark Type STAB.

:barraskewda: :basculegion: These mons are going to be really annoying with Flip Turn. They basically become mons that force in fat tanks like Slowbro while pivoting out into an abuser.

There are many other mons that could be talked about, but I'll let the others discuss the new options available, and how they change the current state of the tier.
 

MrAldo

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Knock Off Weavile and Flip Turn Dragalge back on the menu! Thats great.

Knock Off Cetitan needs to be removed immediately LMAO

High horsepower is pretty slick for revavroom in general ngl, not being so reliant on tera is honestly pretty cool.

In general Knock Off distribution is kind of wilding ngl, most of them had that before but new mons having them and stuff that didnt had it before like copperajah, goodra, cacturne, and skuntank is kind of insane ngl. Toxic distribution is fairly interesting, Bellibolt having it makes it pretty unique in some areas, and it will be interesting to see tsareena and brambleghast effectiveness as spinners now with knock off and poltergeist respectively.

Kind of looking forward to how some stuff will be handled now.
 
So, with the new move distribution there are some mons that (imo) get significantly better, to the point they may leave for higher tiers. Some of the ones that caught my eyes the most:

1694713560893.png

This fella kinda fell off a bit due to the prevalence of krook, mudsdale and palossand, as well as being dead weight against specially defensive mons. With toxic, you now have a way to make progress against grounds types, reducing the need of Soak in sets. A set example would be:

Bellibolt (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 16 HP / 88 Def / 252 SpA / 152 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Parabolic Charge
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Slack Off

1694713939726.png

FINALLY, A WAY TO PUNISH SPINBLOCKERS WITH THIS THING. Poltergeist lets this mon not be dead weight in Bramblegast mirrors and punish spin attempts against it. It also makes more offensive sets a bit more consistent.

Brambleghast (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 88 SpD / 84 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Leech Seed
- Poltergeist
- Strength Sap

1694714268741.png

This one's just a "I STILL BELIEVE IN THIS SH*TMON!" moment, but knock off actually gives some utility to this fella, since you now can pressure defensive mons before setting up, and Defiant means you're not instantly neutered by a krook switching in. It's probably still worse than Guts Trailblaze hera, but still worth a shot. You can also do fun stull like this now:

Falinks @ Muscle Band
Ability: Battle Armor
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Knock Off
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
 
So, with the new move distribution there are some mons that (imo) get significantly better, to the point they may leave for higher tiers. Some of the ones that caught my eyes the most:

View attachment 551760
This fella kinda fell off a bit due to the prevalence of krook, mudsdale and palossand, as well as being dead weight against specially defensive mons. With toxic, you now have a way to make progress against grounds types, reducing the need of Soak in sets. A set example would be:

Bellibolt (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 16 HP / 88 Def / 252 SpA / 152 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Parabolic Charge
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Slack Off

View attachment 551761
FINALLY, A WAY TO PUNISH SPINBLOCKERS WITH THIS THING. Poltergeist lets this mon not be dead weight in Bramblegast mirrors and punish spin attempts against it. It also makes more offensive sets a bit more consistent.

Brambleghast (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 88 SpD / 84 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Leech Seed
- Poltergeist
- Strength Sap

View attachment 551762
This one's just a "I STILL BELIEVE IN THIS SH*TMON!" moment, but knock off actually gives some utility to this fella, since you now can pressure defensive mons before setting up, and Defiant means you're not instantly neutered by a krook switching in. It's probably still worse than Guts Trailblaze hera, but still worth a shot. You can also do fun stull like this now:

Falinks @ Muscle Band
Ability: Battle Armor
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Knock Off
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
High Horsepower Revavroom is the biggest thing I see missing here, considering how common Tera Blast Ground is on Shift Gear sets. Getting a stronger option that isn't tera dependent is massive for its ability to reliably hit stuff (especially giving it the option to run a defensive tera without losing coverage).

Other things that stand out to me:

Vaporeon loves getting Flip Turn and Scald back for the same reasons as Alomomola up in OU/UU. WishTurn Vape put in a lot of work for me last gen, and the loss of Heal Bell/Toxic reduces its 4MSS a fair bit (while also make it less, you know, good).

Scale Shot is an interesting option for Krook and Overqwill both -- moreso Overqwill who has access to SD. Krook would be relying on Moxie for attack boosts, while Qwill can stick with Intimidate to offset that initial Scale Shot Def drop. Krook getting Knock back probably gives it the overall edge in the rivalry they have in my brain, though.

Toxic gives Umbreon another option for making progress beyond Foul Play, but I've actually found Yawn super useful for phazing. More options is always better, though.

Flip Turn is a massive boon to the viability of Specs/AV sets on Dragalge and could probably fit in on TSpikes/Shuffler sets, too.

Loaded Dice Abomasnow incoming? Veil/SD/Bullet Seed/Icicle Crash sounds interesting (other than the fact that it can't hit steels).

Should be fun to see how stuff evolves!
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
Scald vaporeon and slowbro is a big change, like scald>>chillin wa't'er. weavile having koff back means silver age, no Triple axel bUT its Ice stab are not So bad. Flip turn basculegion and barraskewda means a lot of improvements in the choice sets. basculegion didn't get poltergeist tho. Toxic umbreon is gonna be smthing i feel it koff is gonna be some regular move like uturn, and vaporeon flip turn scald wish may be a Good thing if ever it can tank or burn the oppo before it gets killed
 
this meta is going to last for about 6 days more ffs why am i making a post

:wo-chien:
wo chien is an interesting pokemon to me. It's not as widespread as krookodile or kilowattrel in games but it by far warps teambuilding the most purely because THIS THING NEVER DIES OH MY GOD. It's by far the best user of defensive tera in the tier and unless you manage to like force it out early the snail just outlasts everything WHILE consistently making progress with knock off.(apparently resttalk is good as well but idk i havent really used it)
Idk if i'd consider it explicitly broken as of now since the types it likes to tera into get murked by quite a few meta staples(krookodile for poison and ghost, psychics for poison and our steels for fairy)but then again, none of those really like switching into a knock off so the matchup is still iffy.
Decidueye-H also just walls it to hell and back but it's definitely a prudent measure to keep an eye on wo-chien in the future.(or not since everything changes in a week)

:weavile:
Yeah no knock off is a gamechanger for this thing. Top tier wallbreaker and cleaner, especially when it can go tera dark and just eviscerate the opposing team lol. CB is probably this thing's best set since weavile doesnt usually get very many free turns to setup (and also cb basically 2HKOes most of the tier anyways) This thing also has some really good tera options apart from the tera dark delete button. I've liked tera fighting to delete incoming bisharp and i'm pretty sure there's some other cool stuff you can do with this so yeah fun to use

:decidueye-hisui: and :dragalge:
I'm lumping these 2 together even though they do different things because imo these guys are the best glue pokemon in the tier.
Decidueye-h is probably our best form of hazard removal right now, while providing utility in knock, checking stalwarts like krook (barring tera poison gunk shot hehe),wo-chien and is generally a decent blanket physical check while having an actual offensive presence. v good mon

Flip turn was a godsend for dragalge, providing a potent momentum option on both offensive and defensive sets.This thing is incredibly versatile, being able to function as a myriad of different things, from a wallbreaker, tank, pivot as well as hazard setter to say the least. Slow flip turn now also allows it exploit steels by pivoting out into a physical wallbreaker. I'm loving this thing rn because it's just a really good bits and pieces mon.

:slowbro:
dlc in general was MASSIVE for bulky waters because scald is an OP move haha. slowbro def benefits the most from it, providing it with a water stab option that isnt chilling water. CM slowbro feels super potent in this meta, being a defensive titan while threatening the possibility of a sweep if it's allowed to snowball. Itemless slowbro might also genuinely be the play now, so that it takes much less from random knocks, dunks on poltergeists while relying on regenerator to alleviate hazard damage. underrated top tier in my opinion.

rapid fire random stuff that's good now
:umbreon: toxic for umbreon is massive since it doesnt just sit there and get setup on by everything under the sun
:tsareena: knock makes it an actually decent spinner option that can annoy big snail
:decidueye: normal decid also seems pretty good offensively now that it has poltergeist. might also be solid for hazard removal maybe but i haven't tried it out yet.
:thundurus: thundurus has a viable pivot set thanks to knock off now so it can run voltturn shenanigans
:krookodile: yeah we all know what this does, now it has an even better dark STAB move actual Lando-t moment.
:vaporeon: big winner from DLC now that it has both scald and flip turn, the latter providing a big boost to its wishpassing abilities.

Overall meta right now is super fun, easily my favorite of all the official ones, honestly a bit gutted that all this goes to hell once quickdrops happen in a week v epic
 
Goodra might not be in the tier right now, but if the Teal Mask has anything to say about it, it will be soon!
(Seriously, both Knock Off and Scald. Goodra will be infuriating now.)
Hopefully it rises to UU and skips RU, we do not need that thing in RU.
Considering that UU has Hisui Goodra, not really seeing where Goodra has to go from NU if not RU (please don't take our Goodra from us)
 

Ampha

"They don’t call me Greed for nothing!"
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drops:
:ambipom: :mienshao: :sandslash-alola: :vikavolt: :yanmega: :golem: :golem-alola: :leavanny: :ludicolo: :politoed: :shaymin: :snorlax: :victreebel: :arbok: :ariados: :chimecho: :cramorant: :dusknoir: :furret: :illumise: :magcargo: :mightyena: :morpeko: :noctowl: :phione: :poliwrath: :probopass: :sandslash: :swanna: :trevenant: :volbeat: :weezing: :moltres-galar: :magnezone: :regidrago: :scream-tail:

lost: :weavile: :blissey:

Particularly, I feel that Blissey's departure wasnt that big of a influence since it wasnt used that much, we got a couple sick mons too, Weavile's rise was a bit sad but yet expected, so some random thoughts on current metagame:

Rain on me
:politoed: :ludicolo: :poliwrath:

Current rain seems to be on a interesting position, we have Overqwil, Basculegion, both genies, Killowattrel and a couple others, I don't know if its gonna be broken just yet but it sounds good to be honest

Offensive mons
:yanmega: :shaymin: :ambipom: :magnezone: :swanna:

Not much to say I think, those mons look quite good in some way, and ambipom and swanna look interesting to be fair, since power creep actually helped them in some way, although I don't know if people are really gonna use the later


The broken four
:scream-tail: :Moltres-galar: :mienshao: :regidrago:

All those four seem extremely overbearing in some way on current metagame on my point of view, Mienshao is no stranger to love the tier, clear quickban, Regen pivots with life orb, hits very hard and still has the choiced sets option which nuke everything

Regidrago is another story, this thing got buffed to heck with the recent gen, Dragon Dance is probably gonna be its bread and butter and can set up quite easily, while blowing the fairies with Iron head and Tera steel, which enhances its offensive potential by allowing it to set on fairies(bruh)

Moltres is probably pretty simple to understand, Np/Agil/double dance things with Tera push this over the edge, Tera ground comes into mind for diancie and bisharp

and for last but not least, Scream tail, yes, so people were making fun of me for saying that but hear me out, Scream tail is notorious for its (rather negative) impact over early UU, this thing is Bulky as fuck and pair extremely well with wochien, which form a obnoxious to break stall core, plus if i'm gonna be fair here, it probably can tank 90% of the tier and force them into uncomfortable encores/thunder waves/similar, and I think it would be better for the health of the metagame to keep this banned than to ruin games with wo chien once again

random interesting mons

:vikavolt: :golem-alola: :snorlax: :weezing:

Last part but since those didnt fit anywhere else, I just wanted to point out vikavolt looks interesting on theory, Snorlax looks cool with tera around, weezing looks like a potential ok defensive mon, and I just got Alolem here bc I wanna try galvanize explosion sometime LOL


Apart from that, those are all my thoughts for current meta :blobnom:
 
drops:
:ambipom: :mienshao: :sandslash-alola: :vikavolt: :yanmega: :golem: :golem-alola: :leavanny: :ludicolo: :politoed: :shaymin: :snorlax: :victreebel: :arbok: :ariados: :chimecho: :cramorant: :dusknoir: :furret: :illumise: :magcargo: :mightyena: :morpeko: :noctowl: :phione: :poliwrath: :probopass: :sandslash: :swanna: :trevenant: :volbeat: :weezing: :moltres-galar: :magnezone: :regidrago: :scream-tail:

lost: :weavile: :blissey:

Particularly, I feel that Blissey's departure wasnt that big of a influence since it wasnt used that much, we got a couple sick mons too, Weavile's rise was a bit sad but yet expected, so some random thoughts on current metagame:

Rain on me
:politoed: :ludicolo: :poliwrath:

Current rain seems to be on a interesting position, we have Overqwil, Basculegion, both genies, Killowattrel and a couple others, I don't know if its gonna be broken just yet but it sounds good to be honest

Offensive mons
:yanmega: :shaymin: :ambipom: :magnezone: :swanna:

Not much to say I think, those mons look quite good in some way, and ambipom and swanna look interesting to be fair, since power creep actually helped them in some way, although I don't know if people are really gonna use the later


The broken four
:scream-tail: :Moltres-galar: :mienshao: :regidrago:

All those four seem extremely overbearing in some way on current metagame on my point of view, Mienshao is no stranger to love the tier, clear quickban, Regen pivots with life orb, hits very hard and still has the choiced sets option which nuke everything

Regidrago is another story, this thing got buffed to heck with the recent gen, Dragon Dance is probably gonna be its bread and butter and can set up quite easily, while blowing the fairies with Iron head and Tera steel, which enhances its offensive potential by allowing it to set on fairies(bruh)

Moltres is probably pretty simple to understand, Np/Agil/double dance things with Tera push this over the edge, Tera ground comes into mind for diancie and bisharp

and for last but not least, Scream tail, yes, so people were making fun of me for saying that but hear me out, Scream tail is notorious for its (rather negative) impact over early UU, this thing is Bulky as fuck and pair extremely well with wochien, which form a obnoxious to break stall core, plus if i'm gonna be fair here, it probably can tank 90% of the tier and force them into uncomfortable encores/thunder waves/similar, and I think it would be better for the health of the metagame to keep this banned than to ruin games with wo chien once again

random interesting mons

:vikavolt: :golem-alola: :snorlax: :weezing:

Last part but since those didnt fit anywhere else, I just wanted to point out vikavolt looks interesting on theory, Snorlax looks cool with tera around, weezing looks like a potential ok defensive mon, and I just got Alolem here bc I wanna try galvanize explosion sometime LOL


Apart from that, those are all my thoughts for current meta :blobnom:
Regidrago doesn’t have Iron Head though it does have Earthquake and Earth Power
 

EviGaro

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RU Leader
Hlelo, RU Council has voted on a few things following today's tier shift. This time, Mienshao, Moltres-Galar, Politoed and Regidrago were voted on. Here are the results:

Mienshao: 8 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 1 no ban vote (Wally*)
Moltres-Galar: 4 ban votes (Beraldo, eifo, Floss, TheFranklin), 5 no ban votes (cyanize, EviGaro, Feliburn, GoldCat, Wally)
Politoed: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (GoldCat, Wally)
Regidrago: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (EviGaro, Wally)
*Wally is yourwelcomethanku I just did not want to write that four times

As the ban threshold was 6/9, Mienshao, Politoed and Regidrago are now banned from SV RU! Tagging Kris and Marty to implement on ladder, thank you. Some reasonings:

- Mienshao was a very contentious presence last gen, being banned from NU, then RU, and finally UU. It retured to SV with a very similar toolkit, being an extremely powerful presence due to an incredible stab, access to Knock Off and U-turn, alongside a top tier ability in Regenerator. This effectively makes Mienshao unique as it's one of the few offensive powerhouses that can very easily outlast checks, even if foregoing boots like a lot of its competition likes to have. Barely anything changed in SV, bar a weaker tier than it left in SWSH RU, but it did get access to trailblaze, which is somewhat significant as Mienshao already has flexibility in the last moveslot, and could also make SD sets a more threatening presence. The Council essentially saw its toolbox as way too much for the tier as it is and thus it's gone for now.

- Politoed hasn't been a very good mon in a while, being way inferior to Pelipper, but RU really lacks options to handle automatic rain as it is right now. We already have one breaker in Basculegion-M that is fearsome in OU, but is slightly held back here, and other options like Kilowattrel, Overqwil, Ludicolo (that we also just got) and Drednaw just get way better with Politoed support. We did not act on damp rock as rain was fine without an autosetter, but there is certainly a worry that this drop would be too much, and so Politoed was banned.

- Regidrago had no coverage. but this was also changed in SV. If it was only tera, it would probably be fine, but it can also hit steels with Earthquake and Earth Power now, both boosting choiced sets and DD sets, which made it a worry for the Council. PERSONALLY since I voted no ban (and was the one tasked to write this as the Council is currently debating on the pronunciation of Mienshao) I would say that ground coverage, particularly without a stab, isn't really cutting it for me. I found it very tera dependent to not be pants vs fairies, especially since we got a really really really good one in this shift, plus tera fairy being super good in general. Its speed tier and defensive utility are also very lackluster. But I was outvoted SOOOO it's banned.

- On the no ban, we only have Moltres-Galar. I think everyone recognizes this thing has absurd cheese potential, and it's not hard to see why. Double boosting sets are fearsome, and Moltres has great natural bulk paired with an elite typing to allow it setup. However, and this is where the Council ultimately decided on for now, it has a fairly significant movepool issue. Dark / Flying, while incredible overall, has big limitations in the tier, particularly when it comes to hitting fairies - especially the tier defining Diancie - or other top threats like Bisharp. Which then puts Moltres in a bit of a conundrum: does it use its tera defensively, making its setup easier, or does it use tera blast in order to hit those roadblocks? Unfortunately there is no real answer yet, and tera blast needs different typings to hit what it wants, so for now it's staying in the tier. As people build around it and find a way to make it work, it could certainly become a cause of concern, so we are not rejecting a revisit quite yet.
 
- Politoed hasn't been a very good mon in a while, being way inferior to Pelipper, but RU really lacks options to handle automatic rain as it is right now. We already have one breaker in Basculegion-M that is fearsome in OU, but is slightly held back here, and other options like Kilowattrel, Overqwil, Ludicolo (that we also just got) and Drednaw just get way better with Politoed support. We did not act on damp rock as rain was fine without an autosetter, but there is certainly a worry that this drop would be too much, and so Politoed was banned.
+1 to the council that decided not to nuke a archetype instead of only baning the broken part.
Rain never was a problem and is good that still is playable with a Rain Dance setter. The only sus things on rain rn is Ludicolo bc he beats most rain checks so watch out for him.

:moltres galar: Goltres still unban means Diancie get another reason to be spamed

sadly we didnt gain amazing hazzard control with drops :blobsad:
 
Hlelo, RU Council has voted on a few things following today's tier shift. This time, Mienshao, Moltres-Galar, Politoed and Regidrago were voted on. Here are the results:

Mienshao: 8 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 1 no ban vote (Wally*)
Moltres-Galar: 4 ban votes (Beraldo, eifo, Floss, TheFranklin), 5 no ban votes (cyanize, EviGaro, Feliburn, GoldCat, Wally)
Politoed: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (GoldCat, Wally)
Regidrago: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (EviGaro, Wally)
*Wally is yourwelcomethanku I just did not want to write that four times

As the ban threshold was 6/9, Mienshao, Politoed and Regidrago are now banned from SV RU! Tagging Kris and Marty to implement on ladder, thank you. Some reasonings:

- Mienshao was a very contentious presence last gen, being banned from NU, then RU, and finally UU. It retured to SV with a very similar toolkit, being an extremely powerful presence due to an incredible stab, access to Knock Off and U-turn, alongside a top tier ability in Regenerator. This effectively makes Mienshao unique as it's one of the few offensive powerhouses that can very easily outlast checks, even if foregoing boots like a lot of its competition likes to have. Barely anything changed in SV, bar a weaker tier than it left in SWSH RU, but it did get access to trailblaze, which is somewhat significant as Mienshao already has flexibility in the last moveslot, and could also make SD sets a more threatening presence. The Council essentially saw its toolbox as way too much for the tier as it is and thus it's gone for now.

- Politoed hasn't been a very good mon in a while, being way inferior to Pelipper, but RU really lacks options to handle automatic rain as it is right now. We already have one breaker in Basculegion-M that is fearsome in OU, but is slightly held back here, and other options like Kilowattrel, Overqwil, Ludicolo (that we also just got) and Drednaw just get way better with Politoed support. We did not act on damp rock as rain was fine without an autosetter, but there is certainly a worry that this drop would be too much, and so Politoed was banned.

- Regidrago had no coverage. but this was also changed in SV. If it was only tera, it would probably be fine, but it can also hit steels with Earthquake and Earth Power now, both boosting choiced sets and DD sets, which made it a worry for the Council. PERSONALLY since I voted no ban (and was the one tasked to write this as the Council is currently debating on the pronunciation of Mienshao) I would say that ground coverage, particularly without a stab, isn't really cutting it for me. I found it very tera dependent to not be pants vs fairies, especially since we got a really really really good one in this shift, plus tera fairy being super good in general. Its speed tier and defensive utility are also very lackluster. But I was outvoted SOOOO it's banned.

- On the no ban, we only have Moltres-Galar. I think everyone recognizes this thing has absurd cheese potential, and it's not hard to see why. Double boosting sets are fearsome, and Moltres has great natural bulk paired with an elite typing to allow it setup. However, and this is where the Council ultimately decided on for now, it has a fairly significant movepool issue. Dark / Flying, while incredible overall, has big limitations in the tier, particularly when it comes to hitting fairies - especially the tier defining Diancie - or other top threats like Bisharp. Which then puts Moltres in a bit of a conundrum: does it use its tera defensively, making its setup easier, or does it use tera blast in order to hit those roadblocks? Unfortunately there is no real answer yet, and tera blast needs different typings to hit what it wants, so for now it's staying in the tier. As people build around it and find a way to make it work, it could certainly become a cause of concern, so we are not rejecting a revisit quite yet.
No complaints here but why wasn't Drizzle just banned? That's what every gen previously has done, Politoed isn't an issue apart from its ability where lower tiers have to deal with trickle-down anyways.
 

EviGaro

is a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
RU Leader
No complaints here but why wasn't Drizzle just banned? That's what every gen previously has done, Politoed isn't an issue apart from its ability where lower tiers have to deal with trickle-down anyways.
It's a good question, and a lot of it will honestly come down to us wanting a slate quickly due to timing pressure from both RU Cup and SCL, Politoed was nommed first and so we just voted on it. But there are imo two good reasons to do it this way. Well, one good reason and a punt at the issue later on but:

- Because the tiering system prioritizes banning of pokemons, us acting on Politoed required the lowest burden of proof possible. We could act on Drizzle, but as it's not a pokemon ban, we'd still have to address it in policy review, which obviously takes more time than we'd like considering what I said above. And that's true even if there is a precedent, as we made a light clay thread in PR this gen despite banning it last gen on the suggestion of tiering admins. So Drizzle wasn't good enough for that goal. And then it couldn't be anything else because damp rock wasn't an option - not broken before Politoed, also requires PR and affects lower tiers way more - and the abusers are too numerous, would take more time to get into, and would also affect lower tiers potentially.

- The impact on lower tiers is heavily minimized, and with the way tiering is going this gen, it's very likely that Politoed will get freed in the coming months, even maybe next month. If that happens, then its inevitable drop to ZU will just be slightly delayed. But even if it doesn't happen and we fear rain too much, there's no reason we wouldn't just readjust the vote if it comes to it. We will see in the future, especially as we are revoting fairly soon. So yeah, I get it, but realistically it doesn't change enough for now to outweight the benefits of targeting Politoed.
 
Hlelo, RU Council has voted on a few things following today's tier shift. This time, Mienshao, Moltres-Galar, Politoed and Regidrago were voted on. Here are the results:

Mienshao: 8 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 1 no ban vote (Wally*)
Moltres-Galar: 4 ban votes (Beraldo, eifo, Floss, TheFranklin), 5 no ban votes (cyanize, EviGaro, Feliburn, GoldCat, Wally)
Politoed: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, EviGaro, Feliburn, Floss, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (GoldCat, Wally)
Regidrago: 7 ban votes (Beraldo, cyanize, eifo, Feliburn, Floss, GoldCat, TheFranklin), 2 no ban votes (EviGaro, Wally)
*Wally is yourwelcomethanku I just did not want to write that four times

As the ban threshold was 6/9, Mienshao, Politoed and Regidrago are now banned from SV RU! Tagging Kris and Marty to implement on ladder, thank you. Some reasonings:

- Mienshao was a very contentious presence last gen, being banned from NU, then RU, and finally UU. It retured to SV with a very similar toolkit, being an extremely powerful presence due to an incredible stab, access to Knock Off and U-turn, alongside a top tier ability in Regenerator. This effectively makes Mienshao unique as it's one of the few offensive powerhouses that can very easily outlast checks, even if foregoing boots like a lot of its competition likes to have. Barely anything changed in SV, bar a weaker tier than it left in SWSH RU, but it did get access to trailblaze, which is somewhat significant as Mienshao already has flexibility in the last moveslot, and could also make SD sets a more threatening presence. The Council essentially saw its toolbox as way too much for the tier as it is and thus it's gone for now.

- Politoed hasn't been a very good mon in a while, being way inferior to Pelipper, but RU really lacks options to handle automatic rain as it is right now. We already have one breaker in Basculegion-M that is fearsome in OU, but is slightly held back here, and other options like Kilowattrel, Overqwil, Ludicolo (that we also just got) and Drednaw just get way better with Politoed support. We did not act on damp rock as rain was fine without an autosetter, but there is certainly a worry that this drop would be too much, and so Politoed was banned.

- Regidrago had no coverage. but this was also changed in SV. If it was only tera, it would probably be fine, but it can also hit steels with Earthquake and Earth Power now, both boosting choiced sets and DD sets, which made it a worry for the Council. PERSONALLY since I voted no ban (and was the one tasked to write this as the Council is currently debating on the pronunciation of Mienshao) I would say that ground coverage, particularly without a stab, isn't really cutting it for me. I found it very tera dependent to not be pants vs fairies, especially since we got a really really really good one in this shift, plus tera fairy being super good in general. Its speed tier and defensive utility are also very lackluster. But I was outvoted SOOOO it's banned.

- On the no ban, we only have Moltres-Galar. I think everyone recognizes this thing has absurd cheese potential, and it's not hard to see why. Double boosting sets are fearsome, and Moltres has great natural bulk paired with an elite typing to allow it setup. However, and this is where the Council ultimately decided on for now, it has a fairly significant movepool issue. Dark / Flying, while incredible overall, has big limitations in the tier, particularly when it comes to hitting fairies - especially the tier defining Diancie - or other top threats like Bisharp. Which then puts Moltres in a bit of a conundrum: does it use its tera defensively, making its setup easier, or does it use tera blast in order to hit those roadblocks? Unfortunately there is no real answer yet, and tera blast needs different typings to hit what it wants, so for now it's staying in the tier. As people build around it and find a way to make it work, it could certainly become a cause of concern, so we are not rejecting a revisit quite yet.
I will never get to play an RU meta with Mienshao apparently. Suffice to say that I will not be voting any of these gamers for reelection.
 
So, new tier shifts means new toys to play with, and this time we didn't lose anything substantial (no, I'm not counting weavile, that mon was gone the moment it got dark STAB), so the tier should remain relatively stable! :wo: As for what I find interesting this time:

1696272599276.png

Cramorant @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gulp Missile
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Defog
- Roost
- Ice Beam

We got another defog option, although this one's a bit questionable XD I think there's potential in paralysis spread thanks to gulp missile, and the defense drop forces certain counterplay from the opponent, but otherwise this will probably drop next month (unless someome proves me wrong XD). The speed EVs are to outspeed base 90s uninvested, so that you can get a surf on board.

1696272718068.png

Moltres-Galar @ Leftovers
Ability: Berserk
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Wrath
- Air Slash/Hurricane
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I can't believe one of my all time favorite mons dropped here (what no Roost does to a motherf*cker ;-;), and while the double dance sets have the potential to break the tier, I think restalk is also an appealing option once the tier settles down a bit. The idea is to be a late game wincon or a fat breaker thanks to Berserk while having decent survivability in you natural bulk and rest. The speed investment is to outspeed adamant base 65 (like Sandslash-A) while the rest goes into bulk and power.

Other mons that catch my eye but haven't tried are Yanmega (a good Tinted Lens abuser), Trevenant (sub harvest sets still haunt my nightmares) and Weezing (you check all the current relevant ground types of the tier with Levitate).

Finally, the bans seem fine to me, though I'm sad I wasn't at home to abuse Regidrago when it dropped XD
 

Attachments

I know everyone is focused on the edgy chicken right now, but this tier has another problem that, with all the flashy new mons, has gone overlooked:
PCP134.png

The Wish passers in general are quite problematic right now, but Vaporeon's combination of Water Absorb, obscene bulk and unpredictable 4th slot (it can pick and choose from CM, Flip Turn, Haze, or Ice Beam) makes it in my eyes the worst of the bunch. Most of the tier's viable Grass mons (think Wo-Chien and H-Decidueye) hate getting burned by Scald, and our Electrics are really fragile and take a beating from the move, burns notwithstanding. The only real checks I can think of for this Pokemon are :gardevoir:, :tatsugiri:, :bellibolt:, :dragalge: and :slowbro-galar:, each of which have their own problems:
:gardevoir: - Probably the strongest mon of the bunch right now; however it is frail, struggles to even 3HKO it without Specs (which as a set has its issues), and has quite the opportunity cost, as it's difficult to use both it and another fairy (i.e. Diancie or especially Scream Tail) on a team effectively.
:tatsugiri: - Similar issue with fragility, but is harder to fit on teams and requires setup, during which Vaporeon can pivot out to another teammate.
:bellibolt: - Has severe 4MSS with Vaporeon, as it has to pick between being unable to use the valuable Toxic, only being able to hit Vaporeon with Volt Switch, or getting walled by Ground-types/Volt Absorb mons, which are often paired with Vaporeon.
:dragalge: - Non-Specs sets only 2HKO with Draco Meteor, which has Sp. Atk-lowering recoil, and it's even slower than Vaporeon, making it easy to Flip Turn on.
:slowbro-galar: Has the combined issues of Tatsugiri and Dragalge, requiring setup to truly damage it and being Flip Turn bait.
Vaporeon constrains teambuilding and, along with the other Wish passers, turns battles into unfun stall fests. I understand that we're set to get a massive wave of new mons come November, but I do hope the council looks into this obese fish.
 
I know everyone is focused on the edgy chicken right now, but this tier has another problem that, with all the flashy new mons, has gone overlooked:
View attachment 557791
The Wish passers in general are quite problematic right now, but Vaporeon's combination of Water Absorb, obscene bulk and unpredictable 4th slot (it can pick and choose from CM, Flip Turn, Haze, or Ice Beam) makes it in my eyes the worst of the bunch. Most of the tier's viable Grass mons (think Wo-Chien and H-Decidueye) hate getting burned by Scald, and our Electrics are really fragile and take a beating from the move, burns notwithstanding. The only real checks I can think of for this Pokemon are :gardevoir:, :tatsugiri:, :bellibolt:, :dragalge: and :slowbro-galar:, each of which have their own problems:
:gardevoir: - Probably the strongest mon of the bunch right now; however it is frail, struggles to even 3HKO it without Specs (which as a set has its issues), and has quite the opportunity cost, as it's difficult to use both it and another fairy (i.e. Diancie or especially Scream Tail) on a team effectively.
:tatsugiri: - Similar issue with fragility, but is harder to fit on teams and requires setup, during which Vaporeon can pivot out to another teammate.
:bellibolt: - Has severe 4MSS with Vaporeon, as it has to pick between being unable to use the valuable Toxic, only being able to hit Vaporeon with Volt Switch, or getting walled by Ground-types/Volt Absorb mons, which are often paired with Vaporeon.
:dragalge: - Non-Specs sets only 2HKO with Draco Meteor, which has Sp. Atk-lowering recoil, and it's even slower than Vaporeon, making it easy to Flip Turn on.
:slowbro-galar: Has the combined issues of Tatsugiri and Dragalge, requiring setup to truly damage it and being Flip Turn bait.
Vaporeon constrains teambuilding and, along with the other Wish passers, turns battles into unfun stall fests. I understand that we're set to get a massive wave of new mons come November, but I do hope the council looks into this obese fish.
I feel like the metagame is too offensive to really let vaporeon shine atm. Knock off is really prevalent, you're really vulnerable to hazards and you're setup fodder to mons like tera diancie. Also, I feel like you're underselling some of the checks a bit:

1696386008865.png

While being burned sucks, since you lose a lot of power in knock off, you still pressure vaporeon out with leech seed + giga drain, knock its item (making progress for the rest of the team) and have the option of ruination to keep it low.

:slowbro-galar:
I've used this mon as a vaporeon check since the last metagame with av, and it's amazing at that job thanks to Shell Side Arm. No matter the spread you use, Shell Side Arm remain a threat every time it tries to get a wish off, plus you have a very likely chance of poison if the game drags for long.

:bellibolt:
Toxic eliminated the 4MSS this mon had, eliminating the need of muddy water. Yeah, being burned sucks, but your bulk is usually enough to guarantee a toxic on the ground types of the tier (outside banded krook, though idk how common that set is)

:tatsugiri:
As far as I've seen, no vaporeon is running Ice Beam (offensive vaporeon is kind of a meme atm, and you can usually spot them on team preview), making setup tatsugiri a full stop to anything it wants to do, while also having the option to boost its speed (to punish scarfers) or Nasty plot (to punish defensive switches)

:gardevoir:
No vaporeon is staying in on a garde due to the risk of being tricked, and given you always block vaporeon's moves with Trace, you can safely pressure the oposing team with either setup or by tricking another member (or just attacking, tbf XD)

Other mons that are less common but also check vaporeon defensively:

:umbreon:
If burned, you pass the burn to it, limiting its recovery. If not, you threaten it with Toxic while taking negligible damage from its attacks.

:slowbro:
It depends on the set, but you can setup on it with calm mind + psyshock or leave a future sight while you pivot on its other moves

:florges:
A bit more niche, but you also setup quite easily while recovering with draining kiss if it decides to stay in.

Idk, I feel like prepping for alomomola kinda covered prepping for vaporeon as well, being easier to deal with thanks to the lack of regenerator. I can see it being more problematic if they start running Ice Beam more often, but that means you either can't setup, can't pivot or can't Haze. If anything, the real opressive defensive mon is this bastard:

1696387402360.png


This may be the first mon that has made me said "maybe tera IS an unbalanced mechanic after all :smogonbird: " and I hope it gets tested at some point.
 
I feel like the metagame is too offensive to really let vaporeon shine atm. Knock off is really prevalent, you're really vulnerable to hazards and you're setup fodder to mons like tera diancie. Also, I feel like you're underselling some of the checks a bit:

View attachment 557841
While being burned sucks, since you lose a lot of power in knock off, you still pressure vaporeon out with leech seed + giga drain, knock its item (making progress for the rest of the team) and have the option of ruination to keep it low.

:slowbro-galar:
I've used this mon as a vaporeon check since the last metagame with av, and it's amazing at that job thanks to Shell Side Arm. No matter the spread you use, Shell Side Arm remain a threat every time it tries to get a wish off, plus you have a very likely chance of poison if the game drags for long.

:bellibolt:
Toxic eliminated the 4MSS this mon had, eliminating the need of muddy water. Yeah, being burned sucks, but your bulk is usually enough to guarantee a toxic on the ground types of the tier (outside banded krook, though idk how common that set is)

:tatsugiri:
As far as I've seen, no vaporeon is running Ice Beam (offensive vaporeon is kind of a meme atm, and you can usually spot them on team preview), making setup tatsugiri a full stop to anything it wants to do, while also having the option to boost its speed (to punish scarfers) or Nasty plot (to punish defensive switches)

:gardevoir:
No vaporeon is staying in on a garde due to the risk of being tricked, and given you always block vaporeon's moves with Trace, you can safely pressure the oposing team with either setup or by tricking another member (or just attacking, tbf XD)

Other mons that are less common but also check vaporeon defensively:

:umbreon:
If burned, you pass the burn to it, limiting its recovery. If not, you threaten it with Toxic while taking negligible damage from its attacks.

:slowbro:
It depends on the set, but you can setup on it with calm mind + psyshock or leave a future sight while you pivot on its other moves

:florges:
A bit more niche, but you also setup quite easily while recovering with draining kiss if it decides to stay in.

Idk, I feel like prepping for alomomola kinda covered prepping for vaporeon as well, being easier to deal with thanks to the lack of regenerator. I can see it being more problematic if they start running Ice Beam more often, but that means you either can't setup, can't pivot or can't Haze. If anything, the real opressive defensive mon is this bastard:

View attachment 557843

This may be the first mon that has made me said "maybe tera IS an unbalanced mechanic after all :smogonbird: " and I hope it gets tested at some point.
I do agree Diancie is problematic as well (its mostly Tera but idt its getting banned anytime soon unfort) but a lot of the mons you listed (Florges, (Galarian) Slowbro) lose to Haze and/or Tera Poison varieties. The others' issues remain (opportunity cost, hard to fit on teams, scald, etc), while Mr. Belli can be exploited by Vaporeon's teammates (such as Kilowattrel), as it has to choose between running Muddy Water so it's not dead weight against Kilowattrel or running Parabolic Charge to actually hit Vaporeon. Knock Off sucks for it but it does stupidly well against teams that lack Tatsu, Gardevoir, and/or (Toxic) Spikes, all of which can be handled fairly well by its teammates.
 
I do agree Diancie is problematic as well (its mostly Tera but idt its getting banned anytime soon unfort) but a lot of the mons you listed (Florges, (Galarian) Slowbro) lose to Haze and/or Tera Poison varieties. The others' issues remain (opportunity cost, hard to fit on teams, scald, etc), while Mr. Belli can be exploited by Vaporeon's teammates (such as Kilowattrel), as it has to choose between running Muddy Water so it's not dead weight against Kilowattrel or running Parabolic Charge to actually hit Vaporeon. Knock Off sucks for it but it does stupidly well against teams that lack Tatsu, Gardevoir, and/or (Toxic) Spikes, all of which can be handled fairly well by its teammates.
I can shake on the opportunity cost part, but (again) bellibolt's not running muddy water now, it's running toxic. Putting wattrel on a timer while itself not being able to touch you outside of rain boosted weather storm means you force that core into very uncomfortable positions. Most of the bellibolts I've seen are a variant of this:

Bellibolt (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Parabolic Charge
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Slack Off

Also, how do bro and florges lose to haze? you're not setting up against it, you're forcing it out so that you can get the offensive momentum. That's why I singled out AV galarian bro as an answer. If you're running calm mind you're not using it to check the mons above and you can't fit all the moves you want (wish, protect, CM, scald, ice beam)

Also, if you force a tera poison on a defensive mon that means you have the offensive advantage, since you're no longer a safe switch to ground types and you lose harder to some of the checks mentioned above (garde, slowbro). Now, I DO feel like vaporeon has potential to go bonkers, and even has some heat stuff like discount Bronzong:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy/Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Wish

Once you get rid of dark types (not that hard atm), you can act as an end game wincon with Stored power, while also being useful in the mid game as a wish passer :wo:
 
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy/Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Wish

Once you get rid of dark types (not that hard atm), you can act as an end game wincon with Stored power, while also being useful in the mid game as a wish passer :wo:
If you want a Wincon use Tera Poison to make you inmune to Toxic. Acid Armor help with 1v1 CM Psyshock mons like Armarouge, Delphox and Florges.

:sv/armarouge:
This mon survive the ban hammer last mon and the better check of this is running your own Armarouge to beat him. It's so toxic. So please qb the crap of it
 


Yo, with the first DLC dropping, we got access to a bunch of returning Pokémon to use. However, before we are able to use some of those mons in the RU tier, we also have access to move pool additions to the already existing mons.

All the following information has been stolen from TPP. Take a look at his original post here.

This table will show the relevant movepool distribution to the mons already usable in the RU tier. Feel free to let me know if I missed anything, and feel free to talk about the new meta.

Knock Off:
Scald:
Toxic:
High Horsepower:
Flip Turn:
Scale Shot:
Poltergeist:
Icicle Spear:
Vacuum Wave:

big shoutout to Glue for helping me compile this list.

I probably listed a bunch of mons that will stay irrelevant, but who cares.

I feel like it's worth mentioning some of the big winners of this DLC in current RU.

:krookodile: :weavile: Knock Off back is huge for Krookodile, as it was not really the best mon at making progress. Scale Shot access can also create some funny Moxie sweeper sets, but who knows. Weavile also really appreciates having Knock Off back, as Night Slash was a real pitiful Dark Type STAB.

:barraskewda: :basculegion: These mons are going to be really annoying with Flip Turn. They basically become mons that force in fat tanks like Slowbro while pivoting out into an abuser.

There are many other mons that could be talked about, but I'll let the others discuss the new options available, and how they change the current state of the tier.
I'm new to RU (and playing Showdown in general) but I'm hyped to see how much the format's options got expanded bc the DLC. I'll probably try messing around with some silly stuff like Cacturne. Tsareena, Falinks, Drifblim, Cetitan. I've already been looking at using a wild Unburden Drifblim set paired with Teeter Dance Tsareena. Not necesssarily here to just win, but I'm here to have a great time.
 
I'm new to RU (and playing Showdown in general) but I'm hyped to see how much the format's options got expanded bc the DLC. I'll probably try messing around with some silly stuff like Cacturne. Tsareena, Falinks, Drifblim, Cetitan. I've already been looking at using a wild Unburden Drifblim set paired with Teeter Dance Tsareena. Not necesssarily here to just win, but I'm here to have a great time.
please dont use drifblim it didnt deserve to rise im begging you
 

Moon

Grossly Incandescent
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I'm new to RU (and playing Showdown in general) but I'm hyped to see how much the format's options got expanded bc the DLC. I'll probably try messing around with some silly stuff like Cacturne. Tsareena, Falinks, Drifblim, Cetitan. I've already been looking at using a wild Unburden Drifblim set paired with Teeter Dance Tsareena. Not necesssarily here to just win, but I'm here to have a great time.
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